Difference between revisions of "The Fall"

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* Adam and Eve were not created perfect.  Rather, they were created innocent.  It was always to be their purpose to achieve theosis. See [[Atonement]].
 
* Adam and Eve were not created perfect.  Rather, they were created innocent.  It was always to be their purpose to achieve theosis. See [[Atonement]].
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===Temptation: The First Adam and the New Adam===
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:"Our ancient enemy rose up against the first human being, our ancestor, in three temptations. He tempted him by gluttony, by vain ambition and by avarice. And he overcame [Adam] when tempted, because he subjugated him through consent. He tempted him by gluttony when he showed him the forbidden food of the tree and told him, "Taste it." He tempted him by vain ambition when he said, "You will be like gods." He tempted him by adding avarice when he said, "knowing good and evil." Avarice is concerned not only with money but also with high position... But the means by which he overcame the first man were the same ones that caused him to yield when he tempted the second Adam. The devil tempted him by gluttony when he said, "Tell these stones to become bread." He tempted him by vain ambition when he said, "If you are the Son of God, cast yourself down." He tempted him by an avaricious desire for high position when "he showed him all the kingdoms of the world, saying, 'I will give you all these if you will fall down and worship me.' " But the devil is overcome by the second man in the same way as he boasted of overcoming the first man...When the Lord was tempted by the devil, he answered him with the commands of sacred Scripture. By the Word that he was, he could have easily plunged his tempter into the abyss. But he did not reveal the power of his might, but he only brought forth the precepts of Scripture. This was to give us an example of his patience, so that as often as we suffer something from vicious persons we should be aroused to teach rather than to exact revenge. Consider how great God's patience is, how great our impatience. When we are provoked by some injury or threatened harm, or moved to rage, we seek revenge as far as possible. When we are unable to obtain it, we make our threats. But the Lord endured the devil's opposition, and he answered him with nothing except words of meekness. He put up with one he could have punished, so that this might all the more redound to his praise. He overcame his enemy not by destroying him but by suffering him for a while." -- St. Gregory the Great
  
  
 
===Spiritual Meaning Of The Trees In Eden===
 
===Spiritual Meaning Of The Trees In Eden===
"One of the things that we often wonder about is the medieval arguing and disputes in the West over the nature of the trees in the Garden of Eden.  One [of the trees] is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and the other, the tree of life.  In medieval Western Europe, one of the great arguments was over whether the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was an apple, an apricot, or a pomegranate. Does one really surmise, that you can fall into total depravity by eating an apple? Even if it was in disobedience to God? Or that if you had not eaten the apple, that you could have gone and grabbed an apricot off a tree in the middle of the garden, munched on it, and had life everlasting? So, there has to be some other meaning to these two trees. The trees in the Garden of Eden are a prophecy in the type of the cross of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  For when our Lord was crucified, and there were two thieves, one on either side, it was surely by God's will that this was arranged this way. For the thief who turned to Christ and confessed to him, when he looked upon Christ, he realized that [Christ] was the good.  Not just good, but THE good.  And suddenly realized his own wickedness.  And at that moment the cross of Jesus Christ became the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for him. And when he turned to our Lord and said, "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom," the cross of Christ became the tree of life for him.  This is the whole mystery that unfolds before us.  Paradise is there where man dwells in communion with God.  Not necessarily perfect communion, but communion with God. That when our Lord Jesus Christ abides in our heart, we have paradise in our heart. And the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and of life, are placed before us.  We can recognize our Lord Jesus Christ as the good, and realize our own sinfulness, and when we see him upon the cross, where he testifies of his all-suffering love for mankind, we can recognize that this is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for us... but only when we turn to him and say, 'Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom.' When we fully commit ourselves to Jesus Christ, and realize that he is the fruit of the tree of life, and that by partaking of him we have life everlasting.  Then the cross of Jesus Christ becomes the tree of life for us." --  
+
:"One of the things that we often wonder about is the medieval arguing and disputes in the West over the nature of the trees in the Garden of Eden.  One [of the trees] is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and the other, the tree of life.  In medieval Western Europe, one of the great arguments was over whether the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was an apple, an apricot, or a pomegranate. Does one really surmise, that you can fall into total depravity by eating an apple? Even if it was in disobedience to God? Or that if you had not eaten the apple, that you could have gone and grabbed an apricot off a tree in the middle of the garden, munched on it, and had life everlasting? So, there has to be some other meaning to these two trees. The trees in the Garden of Eden are a prophecy in the type of the cross of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  For when our Lord was crucified, and there were two thieves, one on either side, it was surely by God's will that this was arranged this way. For the thief who turned to Christ and confessed to him, when he looked upon Christ, he realized that [Christ] was the good.  Not just good, but THE good.  And suddenly realized his own wickedness.  And at that moment the cross of Jesus Christ became the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for him. And when he turned to our Lord and said, "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom," the cross of Christ became the tree of life for him.  This is the whole mystery that unfolds before us.  Paradise is there where man dwells in communion with God.  Not necessarily perfect communion, but communion with God. That when our Lord Jesus Christ abides in our heart, we have paradise in our heart. And the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and of life, are placed before us.  We can recognize our Lord Jesus Christ as the good, and realize our own sinfulness, and when we see him upon the cross, where he testifies of his all-suffering love for mankind, we can recognize that this is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for us... but only when we turn to him and say, 'Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom.' When we fully commit ourselves to Jesus Christ, and realize that he is the fruit of the tree of life, and that by partaking of him we have life everlasting.  Then the cross of Jesus Christ becomes the tree of life for us." -- Archbishop Lazar Puhalo.  All Saints Monastery YouTube Broadcast.  February 5, 2008.
Archbishop Lazar Puhalo.  All Saints Monastery YouTube Broadcast.  February 5, 2008.
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 +
 
 +
===The Tree of Life===
 +
:"We should be aware of the fact, therefore, that where God has planted the tree of life he has also planted a tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the midst of paradise. It is understood that he planted it in the middle. Therefore, in the middle of paradise there was both a tree of life and a cause for death. Keep in mind that man did not create life. By carrying out and observing the precepts of God it was possible for man to find life. This was the life mentioned by the apostle: "Your life is hidden with Christ in God." Man, therefore, was, figuratively speaking, either in the shadow of life-because our life on earth is but a shadow-or man had life, as it were, in pledge, for he had been breathed on by God." -- St. Ambrose, Paradise 29
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===What Was The Ancestral Sin?===
 
===What Was The Ancestral Sin?===
"Now what is it that man fell from and fell into?  He fell from a love relationship with God. A direct love relationship, in which God loved him completely, unselfishly.  Mankind was created in the image and likeness of God, and unselfish love had to be a part of that image.  So, man fell, not into total depravity, but he did fall into egotism, self centeredness, and self love. This is what the fall of mankind is really all about. The fall from unselfish love, and the experience of an unselfish love, into a self-centeredness and self-love and egotism that made him seek his own, and therefor become unable to love his neighbor as himself, and unable to love our Lord God and Savior with all his heart and with all his might and with all his strength. This is the reason why mankind has destroyed the earth; why we have wars; why we have murders; because mankind fell into this egotism and self-centeredness...  I want you to put out of your mind this pagan idea that the fall of mankind was so extreme that the only way that man could be saved was if God caused his only begotten Son to be tortured and executed in order to satisfy His, God's, own ego and self-centeredness. This is certainly a temptation from the devil, to believe such a doctrine, that God is egotistical, self-centered and self-loving, and so needed the sacrifice -- had to punish man for every sin; had to torture his Son to death in order to satisfy his passions." -- Archbishop Lazar Puhalo.  All Saints Monastery YouTube Broadcast.  February 5, 2008.
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:"Now what is it that man fell from and fell into?  He fell from a love relationship with God. A direct love relationship, in which God loved him completely, unselfishly.  Mankind was created in the image and likeness of God, and unselfish love had to be a part of that image.  So, man fell, not into total depravity, but he did fall into egotism, self centeredness, and self love. This is what the fall of mankind is really all about. The fall from unselfish love, and the experience of an unselfish love, into a self-centeredness and self-love and egotism that made him seek his own, and therefor become unable to love his neighbor as himself, and unable to love our Lord God and Savior with all his heart and with all his might and with all his strength. This is the reason why mankind has destroyed the earth; why we have wars; why we have murders; because mankind fell into this egotism and self-centeredness...  I want you to put out of your mind this pagan idea that the fall of mankind was so extreme that the only way that man could be saved was if God caused his only begotten Son to be tortured and executed in order to satisfy His, God's, own ego and self-centeredness. This is certainly a temptation from the devil, to believe such a doctrine, that God is egotistical, self-centered and self-loving, and so needed the sacrifice -- had to punish man for every sin; had to torture his Son to death in order to satisfy his passions." -- Archbishop Lazar Puhalo.  All Saints Monastery YouTube Broadcast.  February 5, 2008.
 
   
 
   
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 +
===We Are Not Depraved===
 +
:"We are created in the very image of God and it is important to note that our natural way of living is to live within the oneness of Christ. The Fall does not make our natural state depraved to where we have no desire for God. We are not destined to sin and the sin that we do acquire is literally able to be diminished through Christ. It is a modern notion to understand that sin is only forgiven in a legal manner (so-called "justification") and that we must simply prevent it from manifesting outwardly. It is the heart that God changes through our sanctification, which means that our souls actually become freed from these sinful properties. Sin is acquired by our senses, which is why we embrace the ascetic life of fasting, meditation, prayer, and service. Our "passions" are brought on by our own foolishness, so let us plead to God for Wisdom! "Passion was not planted by God in nature, for He is not the Creator of passions... God is not the cause of evil. Those who teach that passions are natural to the soul are wrong, not realizing that it is we who have turned natural things into passions. For example, by nature we have within us the seed necessary for child-bearing, but we have perverted this into fornication. Nature gave us the feeling of anger, which we are supposed to use against the Evil One, instead we use it against our neighbor... We have been given a longing for pleasure, but we use it for dissipation." St. John Klimakos The Ladder of Divine Ascent
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===The Spark of Reason===
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:"When God created man, He breathed into him something divine, as it were a hot and bright spark added to reason, which lit up the mind and showed him the difference between right and wrong. This is called the conscience, which is the law of his nature. This is compared to the well which Jacob dug and which the Philistines filled up (Gen. 26:15). That is, to this law of conscience adhered the patriarchs and all the holy men of old before the written law, and they were pleasing to God. But when this law was buried and trodden underfoot by men through the onset of sin, we needed a written law, we needed the holy prophets, we needed the instruction of our master, Jesus Christ, to reveal it and raise it up and bring to life through the observance of the Commandments that buried spark. It is in our power either to bury it again or, if we obey it, to allow it to shine and illuminate us." -- St. Dorotheos of Gaza
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:Note: I think St. Dorotheos is partially right.  It seems like, at some point about 10,000 years ago, this "bright spark [was] added to reason", but it led to The Fall.  [[User:Wcrowe|Wcrowe]] ([[User talk:Wcrowe|talk]]) 15:10, 15 April 2019 (EDT)
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Latest revision as of 15:10, 15 April 2019

  • God is not "angry". His disposition to mankind never changed. Mankind's disposition to God is what changed with the fall. See Atonement.
  • We were created in the image and likeness of God. The image is something we never lost. The likeness is something which we strive to fulfill (see Theosis).
  • We believe in a divine communion with God. And this communion, known as theosis is the entire purpose of creation. See The Purpose Of Life.
  • Adam and Eve were not created perfect. Rather, they were created innocent. It was always to be their purpose to achieve theosis. See Atonement.


Temptation: The First Adam and the New Adam

"Our ancient enemy rose up against the first human being, our ancestor, in three temptations. He tempted him by gluttony, by vain ambition and by avarice. And he overcame [Adam] when tempted, because he subjugated him through consent. He tempted him by gluttony when he showed him the forbidden food of the tree and told him, "Taste it." He tempted him by vain ambition when he said, "You will be like gods." He tempted him by adding avarice when he said, "knowing good and evil." Avarice is concerned not only with money but also with high position... But the means by which he overcame the first man were the same ones that caused him to yield when he tempted the second Adam. The devil tempted him by gluttony when he said, "Tell these stones to become bread." He tempted him by vain ambition when he said, "If you are the Son of God, cast yourself down." He tempted him by an avaricious desire for high position when "he showed him all the kingdoms of the world, saying, 'I will give you all these if you will fall down and worship me.' " But the devil is overcome by the second man in the same way as he boasted of overcoming the first man...When the Lord was tempted by the devil, he answered him with the commands of sacred Scripture. By the Word that he was, he could have easily plunged his tempter into the abyss. But he did not reveal the power of his might, but he only brought forth the precepts of Scripture. This was to give us an example of his patience, so that as often as we suffer something from vicious persons we should be aroused to teach rather than to exact revenge. Consider how great God's patience is, how great our impatience. When we are provoked by some injury or threatened harm, or moved to rage, we seek revenge as far as possible. When we are unable to obtain it, we make our threats. But the Lord endured the devil's opposition, and he answered him with nothing except words of meekness. He put up with one he could have punished, so that this might all the more redound to his praise. He overcame his enemy not by destroying him but by suffering him for a while." -- St. Gregory the Great


Spiritual Meaning Of The Trees In Eden

"One of the things that we often wonder about is the medieval arguing and disputes in the West over the nature of the trees in the Garden of Eden. One [of the trees] is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and the other, the tree of life. In medieval Western Europe, one of the great arguments was over whether the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was an apple, an apricot, or a pomegranate. Does one really surmise, that you can fall into total depravity by eating an apple? Even if it was in disobedience to God? Or that if you had not eaten the apple, that you could have gone and grabbed an apricot off a tree in the middle of the garden, munched on it, and had life everlasting? So, there has to be some other meaning to these two trees. The trees in the Garden of Eden are a prophecy in the type of the cross of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. For when our Lord was crucified, and there were two thieves, one on either side, it was surely by God's will that this was arranged this way. For the thief who turned to Christ and confessed to him, when he looked upon Christ, he realized that [Christ] was the good. Not just good, but THE good. And suddenly realized his own wickedness. And at that moment the cross of Jesus Christ became the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for him. And when he turned to our Lord and said, "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom," the cross of Christ became the tree of life for him. This is the whole mystery that unfolds before us. Paradise is there where man dwells in communion with God. Not necessarily perfect communion, but communion with God. That when our Lord Jesus Christ abides in our heart, we have paradise in our heart. And the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and of life, are placed before us. We can recognize our Lord Jesus Christ as the good, and realize our own sinfulness, and when we see him upon the cross, where he testifies of his all-suffering love for mankind, we can recognize that this is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for us... but only when we turn to him and say, 'Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom.' When we fully commit ourselves to Jesus Christ, and realize that he is the fruit of the tree of life, and that by partaking of him we have life everlasting. Then the cross of Jesus Christ becomes the tree of life for us." -- Archbishop Lazar Puhalo. All Saints Monastery YouTube Broadcast. February 5, 2008.


The Tree of Life

"We should be aware of the fact, therefore, that where God has planted the tree of life he has also planted a tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the midst of paradise. It is understood that he planted it in the middle. Therefore, in the middle of paradise there was both a tree of life and a cause for death. Keep in mind that man did not create life. By carrying out and observing the precepts of God it was possible for man to find life. This was the life mentioned by the apostle: "Your life is hidden with Christ in God." Man, therefore, was, figuratively speaking, either in the shadow of life-because our life on earth is but a shadow-or man had life, as it were, in pledge, for he had been breathed on by God." -- St. Ambrose, Paradise 29


What Was The Ancestral Sin?

"Now what is it that man fell from and fell into? He fell from a love relationship with God. A direct love relationship, in which God loved him completely, unselfishly. Mankind was created in the image and likeness of God, and unselfish love had to be a part of that image. So, man fell, not into total depravity, but he did fall into egotism, self centeredness, and self love. This is what the fall of mankind is really all about. The fall from unselfish love, and the experience of an unselfish love, into a self-centeredness and self-love and egotism that made him seek his own, and therefor become unable to love his neighbor as himself, and unable to love our Lord God and Savior with all his heart and with all his might and with all his strength. This is the reason why mankind has destroyed the earth; why we have wars; why we have murders; because mankind fell into this egotism and self-centeredness... I want you to put out of your mind this pagan idea that the fall of mankind was so extreme that the only way that man could be saved was if God caused his only begotten Son to be tortured and executed in order to satisfy His, God's, own ego and self-centeredness. This is certainly a temptation from the devil, to believe such a doctrine, that God is egotistical, self-centered and self-loving, and so needed the sacrifice -- had to punish man for every sin; had to torture his Son to death in order to satisfy his passions." -- Archbishop Lazar Puhalo. All Saints Monastery YouTube Broadcast. February 5, 2008.


We Are Not Depraved

"We are created in the very image of God and it is important to note that our natural way of living is to live within the oneness of Christ. The Fall does not make our natural state depraved to where we have no desire for God. We are not destined to sin and the sin that we do acquire is literally able to be diminished through Christ. It is a modern notion to understand that sin is only forgiven in a legal manner (so-called "justification") and that we must simply prevent it from manifesting outwardly. It is the heart that God changes through our sanctification, which means that our souls actually become freed from these sinful properties. Sin is acquired by our senses, which is why we embrace the ascetic life of fasting, meditation, prayer, and service. Our "passions" are brought on by our own foolishness, so let us plead to God for Wisdom! "Passion was not planted by God in nature, for He is not the Creator of passions... God is not the cause of evil. Those who teach that passions are natural to the soul are wrong, not realizing that it is we who have turned natural things into passions. For example, by nature we have within us the seed necessary for child-bearing, but we have perverted this into fornication. Nature gave us the feeling of anger, which we are supposed to use against the Evil One, instead we use it against our neighbor... We have been given a longing for pleasure, but we use it for dissipation." St. John Klimakos The Ladder of Divine Ascent


The Spark of Reason

"When God created man, He breathed into him something divine, as it were a hot and bright spark added to reason, which lit up the mind and showed him the difference between right and wrong. This is called the conscience, which is the law of his nature. This is compared to the well which Jacob dug and which the Philistines filled up (Gen. 26:15). That is, to this law of conscience adhered the patriarchs and all the holy men of old before the written law, and they were pleasing to God. But when this law was buried and trodden underfoot by men through the onset of sin, we needed a written law, we needed the holy prophets, we needed the instruction of our master, Jesus Christ, to reveal it and raise it up and bring to life through the observance of the Commandments that buried spark. It is in our power either to bury it again or, if we obey it, to allow it to shine and illuminate us." -- St. Dorotheos of Gaza
Note: I think St. Dorotheos is partially right. It seems like, at some point about 10,000 years ago, this "bright spark [was] added to reason", but it led to The Fall. Wcrowe (talk) 15:10, 15 April 2019 (EDT)





See Also

Death