Difference between revisions of "The Bible"

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=Authority of Scripture=
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===Ignorance of Scripture===
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:"Ignorance of scripture, is ignorance of Christ." -- St. Jerome
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:*(since all scripture points to Christ [[User:Wcrowe|Wcrowe]] ([[User talk:Wcrowe|talk]]) 14:22, 30 October 2017 (EDT))
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 +
 
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===Scripture Engraved On Our Hearts===
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:"The Holy Scriptures were not given to us so that we should enclose them in books, but that we should engrave them upon our hearts." -- St. John Chrysostom
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 +
 
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===The Bible in the Orthodox Church===
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:"When we look at these differences between Orthodoxy and Western type of Christianity we have to ask ourselves, what is the definition of scripture, in relationship with tradition, because always we operate with another term... "tradition". Orthodoxy looks at the scripture like a channel of the transmission of the revelation of God. We have this beautiful phrase in 2 Timothy, Chapter 3:16 that "πᾶσα γραφὴ θεόπνευστος", that "the entire scripture is inspired", is one translation, but there could be another translation: that the entire scripture is actually God's "breathing through". So for us, as Orthodox that's why we have an elastic view, a flexible view of looking at the canon.  Our canon is open-ended, at least in terms of Old Testament. We look at the scripture like an instrument or channel through which God speaks to us. Now, if we go to the Westerns, they will treat the scripture as a source -- as like recording the mind of God.  The Protestants and the Catholics are the same. Now the Catholics we know after the Second Vatican Council, they changed a little bit the terminology.  They don't use for the tradition and scripture the terms, "sources", of the revelation of God. They are coming closer to our understanding, which is an older understanding. So the scripture is a channel. [This is] how it was used actually in the first Church, and then what we consider Orthodoxy is like a continuation of this Church vis-a-vis the Western side of Christianity.... We Orthodox put an accent on the formative use of the scripture. That's why when you see, when you go in a church, like a forteenth century church, you'll find [an icon of] Elijah fasting. This is a reminder for the Christians -- we are in the time of Lent, so we have to fast.  So it's kind of formative [rather than] informative.  We didn't create "departments" for the Bible.  The Bible is for everybody. And [even though some would say that] the patristic exegesis is what defines Orthodoxy, I think that it is the liturgical exegesis [that defines Orthodoxy]. Because, while in the liturgy you have the mind of the fathers and snapshots of their commentaries, but you also have that kind of flexible thinking of the artist. Because if you are a hymnographer you don't have so much responsibility as the father going to the councils. So you put all this kind of artistry to work for the benefit of the Church." -- Fr. Eugen Pentiuc, Discovering Orthodox Christianity, The Bible in the Orthodox Church, YouTube video, Nov 3, 2013, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ9tBd2ghjc Video Link]
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 +
 
 +
 
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===Textual Criticisms have Fantasies About Them===
 
:"A lot of the textual criticism of the Old Testament, as well as the New Testament, have certain fantasies about them. What we really are left with then, is to take what the Church has taught us as the meaning of the scripture, and accept that as being the revelation of God about the meaning of scripture. It doesn't matter if someone claims that God wrote every single word of scripture or not.  What matters is, what does the Church say that the scripture means. The Church is the sole and singular authority for the interpretation of scripture in this world. God did not leave us in a state of chaos and confusion so that we could have a thousand different interpretors, and a thousand different versions of the scripture.  But this is precisely what happens when people cease accepting what the scripture says: that Jesus Christ created his Church, and that the gates of Hades would not prevail against it." -- Archbishop Lazar Puhalo, YouTube Broadcast, December 26, 2008.
 
:"A lot of the textual criticism of the Old Testament, as well as the New Testament, have certain fantasies about them. What we really are left with then, is to take what the Church has taught us as the meaning of the scripture, and accept that as being the revelation of God about the meaning of scripture. It doesn't matter if someone claims that God wrote every single word of scripture or not.  What matters is, what does the Church say that the scripture means. The Church is the sole and singular authority for the interpretation of scripture in this world. God did not leave us in a state of chaos and confusion so that we could have a thousand different interpretors, and a thousand different versions of the scripture.  But this is precisely what happens when people cease accepting what the scripture says: that Jesus Christ created his Church, and that the gates of Hades would not prevail against it." -- Archbishop Lazar Puhalo, YouTube Broadcast, December 26, 2008.
  
  
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===Scripture not the Final Authority===
 
:"The scripture is not the final authority for the Church. The Church is the authority for the scripture." -- Archbishop Lazar Puhalo, YouTube Broadcast, December 26, 2008.
 
:"The scripture is not the final authority for the Church. The Church is the authority for the scripture." -- Archbishop Lazar Puhalo, YouTube Broadcast, December 26, 2008.
  
  
 +
===The Church Authorizes the Scripture===
 
:"Having given it canonical form and canonized the scripture, the scripture becomes the touchstone for all that is taught and all that is understood in the Church. The Church has given it the seal of authority and it becomes "God's Word" because the Church has sanctified it and certified it as such." -- Archbishop Lazar Puhalo, YouTube Broadcast, December 26, 2008.
 
:"Having given it canonical form and canonized the scripture, the scripture becomes the touchstone for all that is taught and all that is understood in the Church. The Church has given it the seal of authority and it becomes "God's Word" because the Church has sanctified it and certified it as such." -- Archbishop Lazar Puhalo, YouTube Broadcast, December 26, 2008.
  
=Textual Criticism=
+
 
 +
===Anomolies in Scripture===
 
:"Of course you can find anomalies in scripture. You can find things that are incorrect. That is the problem of insisting that God wrote every single word of scripture and that man had nothing whatsoever to do with recording things as he saw them, and as he understood them. This is another place where textual criticism falls short. Because they're also going on this premise that there should be a kind of absolute fluidity and concrete systematic revelation, and some kind of systematic theology unfolding in scripture. There is no need to have such a view or such an understanding. People recorded what took place as they saw it -- as it impacted upon them -- and they told it from their point of view.  When the prophets were speaking, their words were being recorded by someone. We needn't think that Isaiah or Ezekiel or someone else wrote the sermons that they were giving in public ahead of time and studied them. But rather that these things poured forth from them through the grace of the Holy Spirit, and they were recorded by someone. There is no suggestion that the prophets sat down and wrote their own books about their own prophecies, but that others recorded what they had said.  There are bound to be some textual differences in each one of the books.  This is another place where this so-called higher textual criticism breaks down and falls short. How can you make a higher textual criticism when you don't know which scribe wrote what part; how many scribes were involved; and which different places their words were recorded in, even of the prophets?  We need to take the scripture and understand the meaning of it, as the Church gives it to us, otherwise we come into this same cacophonous distortion, misunderstanding, contradiction, which we find in the Protestant world.  Most Protestants are quite sincere, and try to be honest about it, and yet they're faced with the same problems that those who wish to rip the scripture apart with higher criticisms are faced with. We do not know who were the scribes who recorded the prophet's words; which ones of them recorded which parts; and who put it together in a single book. Each scribe would have written a little bit differently" -- Archbishop Lazar Puhalo, YouTube Broadcast, December 26, 2008.
 
:"Of course you can find anomalies in scripture. You can find things that are incorrect. That is the problem of insisting that God wrote every single word of scripture and that man had nothing whatsoever to do with recording things as he saw them, and as he understood them. This is another place where textual criticism falls short. Because they're also going on this premise that there should be a kind of absolute fluidity and concrete systematic revelation, and some kind of systematic theology unfolding in scripture. There is no need to have such a view or such an understanding. People recorded what took place as they saw it -- as it impacted upon them -- and they told it from their point of view.  When the prophets were speaking, their words were being recorded by someone. We needn't think that Isaiah or Ezekiel or someone else wrote the sermons that they were giving in public ahead of time and studied them. But rather that these things poured forth from them through the grace of the Holy Spirit, and they were recorded by someone. There is no suggestion that the prophets sat down and wrote their own books about their own prophecies, but that others recorded what they had said.  There are bound to be some textual differences in each one of the books.  This is another place where this so-called higher textual criticism breaks down and falls short. How can you make a higher textual criticism when you don't know which scribe wrote what part; how many scribes were involved; and which different places their words were recorded in, even of the prophets?  We need to take the scripture and understand the meaning of it, as the Church gives it to us, otherwise we come into this same cacophonous distortion, misunderstanding, contradiction, which we find in the Protestant world.  Most Protestants are quite sincere, and try to be honest about it, and yet they're faced with the same problems that those who wish to rip the scripture apart with higher criticisms are faced with. We do not know who were the scribes who recorded the prophet's words; which ones of them recorded which parts; and who put it together in a single book. Each scribe would have written a little bit differently" -- Archbishop Lazar Puhalo, YouTube Broadcast, December 26, 2008.
  
  
  
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===You Can Only Interpret the Bible Theologically and Historically===
 
:"Cain knew his wife.  And you can ask the question, "where did he get that wife?"  Was it sons of Adam and Eve? You can't interpret that biologically. There's no way it is to be interpreted biologically. It can be interpreted theologically and historically.  Theologically as showing the truth of God, and historically, meaning these are events that take place among human beings, so that the root is historical. But the story is not historical, and that's a very biblical thing.  You're dealing with real events in human history, but how they're being presented is in a quasi-historical manner for theological purposes.  But they are not simply, literal history in the modern sense."  -- Fr. Thomas Hopko.
 
:"Cain knew his wife.  And you can ask the question, "where did he get that wife?"  Was it sons of Adam and Eve? You can't interpret that biologically. There's no way it is to be interpreted biologically. It can be interpreted theologically and historically.  Theologically as showing the truth of God, and historically, meaning these are events that take place among human beings, so that the root is historical. But the story is not historical, and that's a very biblical thing.  You're dealing with real events in human history, but how they're being presented is in a quasi-historical manner for theological purposes.  But they are not simply, literal history in the modern sense."  -- Fr. Thomas Hopko.
  
  
See also:  
+
See also:
 +
 
[[Oral Tradition]]
 
[[Oral Tradition]]
 +
 
[[The Old Testament]]
 
[[The Old Testament]]

Latest revision as of 14:24, 23 October 2020


Ignorance of Scripture

"Ignorance of scripture, is ignorance of Christ." -- St. Jerome
  • (since all scripture points to Christ Wcrowe (talk) 14:22, 30 October 2017 (EDT))


Scripture Engraved On Our Hearts

"The Holy Scriptures were not given to us so that we should enclose them in books, but that we should engrave them upon our hearts." -- St. John Chrysostom


The Bible in the Orthodox Church

"When we look at these differences between Orthodoxy and Western type of Christianity we have to ask ourselves, what is the definition of scripture, in relationship with tradition, because always we operate with another term... "tradition". Orthodoxy looks at the scripture like a channel of the transmission of the revelation of God. We have this beautiful phrase in 2 Timothy, Chapter 3:16 that "πᾶσα γραφὴ θεόπνευστος", that "the entire scripture is inspired", is one translation, but there could be another translation: that the entire scripture is actually God's "breathing through". So for us, as Orthodox that's why we have an elastic view, a flexible view of looking at the canon. Our canon is open-ended, at least in terms of Old Testament. We look at the scripture like an instrument or channel through which God speaks to us. Now, if we go to the Westerns, they will treat the scripture as a source -- as like recording the mind of God. The Protestants and the Catholics are the same. Now the Catholics we know after the Second Vatican Council, they changed a little bit the terminology. They don't use for the tradition and scripture the terms, "sources", of the revelation of God. They are coming closer to our understanding, which is an older understanding. So the scripture is a channel. [This is] how it was used actually in the first Church, and then what we consider Orthodoxy is like a continuation of this Church vis-a-vis the Western side of Christianity.... We Orthodox put an accent on the formative use of the scripture. That's why when you see, when you go in a church, like a forteenth century church, you'll find [an icon of] Elijah fasting. This is a reminder for the Christians -- we are in the time of Lent, so we have to fast. So it's kind of formative [rather than] informative. We didn't create "departments" for the Bible. The Bible is for everybody. And [even though some would say that] the patristic exegesis is what defines Orthodoxy, I think that it is the liturgical exegesis [that defines Orthodoxy]. Because, while in the liturgy you have the mind of the fathers and snapshots of their commentaries, but you also have that kind of flexible thinking of the artist. Because if you are a hymnographer you don't have so much responsibility as the father going to the councils. So you put all this kind of artistry to work for the benefit of the Church." -- Fr. Eugen Pentiuc, Discovering Orthodox Christianity, The Bible in the Orthodox Church, YouTube video, Nov 3, 2013, Video Link


Textual Criticisms have Fantasies About Them

"A lot of the textual criticism of the Old Testament, as well as the New Testament, have certain fantasies about them. What we really are left with then, is to take what the Church has taught us as the meaning of the scripture, and accept that as being the revelation of God about the meaning of scripture. It doesn't matter if someone claims that God wrote every single word of scripture or not. What matters is, what does the Church say that the scripture means. The Church is the sole and singular authority for the interpretation of scripture in this world. God did not leave us in a state of chaos and confusion so that we could have a thousand different interpretors, and a thousand different versions of the scripture. But this is precisely what happens when people cease accepting what the scripture says: that Jesus Christ created his Church, and that the gates of Hades would not prevail against it." -- Archbishop Lazar Puhalo, YouTube Broadcast, December 26, 2008.


Scripture not the Final Authority

"The scripture is not the final authority for the Church. The Church is the authority for the scripture." -- Archbishop Lazar Puhalo, YouTube Broadcast, December 26, 2008.


The Church Authorizes the Scripture

"Having given it canonical form and canonized the scripture, the scripture becomes the touchstone for all that is taught and all that is understood in the Church. The Church has given it the seal of authority and it becomes "God's Word" because the Church has sanctified it and certified it as such." -- Archbishop Lazar Puhalo, YouTube Broadcast, December 26, 2008.


Anomolies in Scripture

"Of course you can find anomalies in scripture. You can find things that are incorrect. That is the problem of insisting that God wrote every single word of scripture and that man had nothing whatsoever to do with recording things as he saw them, and as he understood them. This is another place where textual criticism falls short. Because they're also going on this premise that there should be a kind of absolute fluidity and concrete systematic revelation, and some kind of systematic theology unfolding in scripture. There is no need to have such a view or such an understanding. People recorded what took place as they saw it -- as it impacted upon them -- and they told it from their point of view. When the prophets were speaking, their words were being recorded by someone. We needn't think that Isaiah or Ezekiel or someone else wrote the sermons that they were giving in public ahead of time and studied them. But rather that these things poured forth from them through the grace of the Holy Spirit, and they were recorded by someone. There is no suggestion that the prophets sat down and wrote their own books about their own prophecies, but that others recorded what they had said. There are bound to be some textual differences in each one of the books. This is another place where this so-called higher textual criticism breaks down and falls short. How can you make a higher textual criticism when you don't know which scribe wrote what part; how many scribes were involved; and which different places their words were recorded in, even of the prophets? We need to take the scripture and understand the meaning of it, as the Church gives it to us, otherwise we come into this same cacophonous distortion, misunderstanding, contradiction, which we find in the Protestant world. Most Protestants are quite sincere, and try to be honest about it, and yet they're faced with the same problems that those who wish to rip the scripture apart with higher criticisms are faced with. We do not know who were the scribes who recorded the prophet's words; which ones of them recorded which parts; and who put it together in a single book. Each scribe would have written a little bit differently" -- Archbishop Lazar Puhalo, YouTube Broadcast, December 26, 2008.


You Can Only Interpret the Bible Theologically and Historically

"Cain knew his wife. And you can ask the question, "where did he get that wife?" Was it sons of Adam and Eve? You can't interpret that biologically. There's no way it is to be interpreted biologically. It can be interpreted theologically and historically. Theologically as showing the truth of God, and historically, meaning these are events that take place among human beings, so that the root is historical. But the story is not historical, and that's a very biblical thing. You're dealing with real events in human history, but how they're being presented is in a quasi-historical manner for theological purposes. But they are not simply, literal history in the modern sense." -- Fr. Thomas Hopko.


See also:

Oral Tradition

The Old Testament